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Post by Sher on Feb 4, 2007 3:17:27 GMT -5
First I would like to say that the information contained in this thread are only notes taken and not the confirmed transcript. Please use caution when reading. The material may be offensive to more sensitive readers.
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Post by Sher on Feb 4, 2007 3:19:02 GMT -5
REPORTER NOTES ON POLICE INTERVIEW: NOT OFFICIAL TRANSCRIPT Reporter notes about excerpts from police interview with Robert Pickton, by RCMP Staff Sgt. Bill Fordy at the Surrey detachment offices in February 2002. These are not official transcripts of the interview, they are notes taken by journalists as the evidence was introduced.
From trial of Robert William Pickton, Jan 23 2007.
F: Everything I say to you is recorded - that’s for your protection and mine… a couple of things I wanted to make sure - you understand. Rob, I’m not going to be mean or yell at you or get physical. I’m going to treat you with the respect you deserve, and I’m going to treat you with dignity - because if I was in that chair that’s how I’d want to be treated. And no one else is going to hurt you, or get physical with you, I promise you that. I am a police officer and I have a job to do. You’ve been arrested for a couple of murders
P: That’s what they say.
F: you were told your under arrest for a couple of murders
P: That’s what they say.
F: Charges have been laid - they’re done a pretty thorough investigation. You’ve been charged with 2 murders.
P: I was charged yesterday (unintelligible).
F: You were arrested yesterday. In addition to those 2 murders, police are… Police are also investigating 50 missing street workers
P: Laughs…okay
F: Let me clarify something okay - you haven’t been charged with 50
P: Laughs, I guess not
F: When you’re under investigation I have to tell you, so I have to tell you you’re being investigated for em - I didn’t say you’ve been charged with those murders. I know that yesterday that you consulted with your lawyer - last night I guess.
P: Uhhhuh
F: Your conversations with your lawyer are privileged - you don’t have to tell me anything they said …I can’t imagine how you feel, you’ve probably got a ton of questions. Lawyer gave you some advice.
P: No kidding. (pause) the advice from my lawyer is don’t talk to the police.
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Post by Sher on Feb 4, 2007 3:19:28 GMT -5
F: I’m not going to badmouth your lawyer. You get advice from them. My job is to get the truth. Obviously I’d like you to tell me what’s going on. I would like you to tell me what’s going on. I want to make sure you understand the seriousness of this investigation, all right. You understand you are charged with 2 murders.
P: That’s what they say.
F: Well you have been charged - they’ve gathered evidence, its such. Based the way the investigations going, and the evidence that’s coming in… you’re also suspected of being involved in the disappearance and murder of other girls
P: Laughs
F: I know that might seem humorous. There’s just one thing that I want you to know, in Canada, there’s some things we have to do by law. Before you drive, what do you need - a driver’s licence. In Canadian law there some things you don’t have to do. You don’t have to talk to me.
P: Right.
F: Because the law considers me a person of authority - this is a criminal matter, its very very serious. As a police officer, I can get subpoenaed to court …I’ve been in court in different provinces, different towns, and I can give evidence on what’s gone on between you and I.
P: I don’t have anything to hide.
F: Anything you say to me can be given as evidence. But you don’t have to talk to me. You’re being investigated for up to 50 murders. In your own words, can you describe to me what that means to me.
P: What that means to me… it's hogwash. That's all I can really tell you. It could be a setup. (being cautious) You’re here to ask me questions-I’m just a working man. That’s what I am.
Fordy says to him - you’re as big as the pope right now (Pickton no real response) EXCERPT: P: I’ve been set up.
F: I want to make sure you and I are on the same page….want to make sure I treat you the way I’d want to be treated if I was I that chair.
P: I’ve done nothing.
F: Let me ask you something Rob. Why do you think I’m here this morning.
P: You want to ask me a few questions ….to see (unintelligible)
F: This investigtion is huge - it’s massive …it’s real important to me that you understand that ….(ui) try to understand you. In your own words why am I here talking to you.
P: Long pause …. EXCERPT: P: I’m mind baffling and I'm just a working guy… just a plain working guy that’s all I am. …it’s a little far fetched isn’t it? (shakes hand - Fordy ) EXCERPT:
P: Well I’m just a pig man that’s all I got to say (chuckles) EXCERPT:
F: In the early 80’s you were involved in an investigation with the police and you made a decision at that time to go and show police where a number of cars were buried right you were cooperative right do you remember that
P: My brother was beaten EXCERPT:
F: Later was your brother mad at you for talking to Dana Lillius?
P: I don’t know.
F: My understanding from investigators is that he gave you nuts for that>
P: I don’t know. P: I’m just a pig farmer. Don’t think I’d change my life, that much.
F: (tells long story about playing hockey, being drafted for the Whalers, broke his shoulder, end of that, worst thing to ever happen to him) What’s the worst thing that ever happened to your Rob?
P: Being stabbed I guess. I’m a bad dude. Name of the game I guess. Nailed to the cross.
F: If I said describe yourself, how would you do that?
P: We’re the same guys…same show, same shoes, just different sizes in suits. We’re actually the same.
F: That’s on the outside. Tell me about you on the inside Rob, what kind of person are you on the inside?
P: We eat the same food, use the same toilet, same washroom, eveything else.
F: My mom died of cancer.
P: My mother did too.
F: really - how long ago
P: 1979. April 1st. It was a spreading cancer.
F: spreading to all parts of her body. F: How old were you?
P: I don’t know.
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Post by Sher on Feb 4, 2007 3:19:49 GMT -5
F: you said 79 F: What was her name?
P: Louise. (?)
F: how did you two get along when you were a child.
P: Two peas in a pod.
F: Close obviously ?
P: yesssssssssssssssss. (long pause) yea.
F: Do you miss your mom? P: well, do you?
F; I do yea.
P: Well, yea.
F: (talks about himself for a long time, a hard worker, gives all the credit to his mom.pride myself on being a hard worker - give all the credit to me. Took care of my brothers, my sister and i. She wa s a hard worker.) Who do you respect more in the world?
P: Who do I respect most in the world. My mother.
F: What do you like about her?
P: Strong. (long pause) Strong.
F: what do you mean, strong?
P: Strong of mind, strong of heart.
F: think about my mum-hard working. How do you think about your mum.
P: same - same way.
F: did she died in the hospital.
P: she died in the hospital.
F: were you taking care of her when she died.
P: mmhmm.
F: How long did it take for her to die?
P: Four months.
F: Were you with her when she died?
P: I don’t know where I was.
F: were you working?
P: On the farm.
F: What about your dad?
P: He died 1977. January 1st. Mom was born Marcdh 20 1912. Dad, 1896 (I think-kr)
F: What was his date of birth?
P: I don’t know. Mom was born in Saskatchewan. In Raymond’s Creek.
F: so was my grandmother. F: How’d you get along with your dad as a kid?
P: Good.
F: how’d he die?
P: old age.
F: good way to die isn’t it. P: yea.
F: (talks about nearly dying in a car accident) How do you want to die?
P: I don’t know. Old age probably.
F: like your dad
P: yea… there’s a reason for everything.
F: I ask myself, why did I break my shoulder. Why? Why do you think you’re here today?
P: I don’t know. I don’t know. Life is not a rehearsal. (haha)
F: (talks about his 2 kids being the best thing that ever happened to him) What’s the best thing that ever happened to you?
P: don’t know. Work. I went on holiday once. Kansas City Missouri. I had a return ticket and cashed it in there. 1974. [Inaudible] I had a chance to work for 40 bucks an hour. Said, no, I’m here on holiday. I was 24 at the time. I went to Chicago. Chicago’s a dirty town. A lot of blacks, not that I’m prejudiced or anything. You had to be careful at night. There was no gas. Get just 2-3 dollars of gas, the gas wars were on. I was gone six and a half weeks. Got engaged. But, she couldn’t leave her job, I couldn’t leave mine. I had to get back to the farm. She’s probably married off now and everything else. She’s married off, kids now, everything else. It was a long time ago. Yup, she’s probably married off. But had to get back to the farm. That’s life. (they had been pen pals) (some weird and inaudible section about George Washington chopping down the cherry tree, and cherry pie… Connie Anderson was her name. Pickton and Fordy get onto food for a bit)
P: I don’t eat vegetables.
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Post by Sher on Feb 4, 2007 3:20:12 GMT -5
F: just meat?
P: yup
F: what’s your favorite meat? REPORTER NOTES FROM EVIDENCE: POLICE INTERVIEW WITH ROBERT PICKTON, PAGE 7 REPORTER NOTES ON POLICE INTERVIEW: NOT OFFICIAL TRANSCRIPT
P: pork. (they both laugh)
F: how long were you down in the US?
P: 5 weeks.
F: When’d you get engaged.
P: I got engaged right away. She was tall - 5’11”, blonde, 140 lbs, nice body, nice eyes.
F: you guys were together for 5 weeks and then she couldn’t come up?
P: Her parents wouldn’t let her come up. she was supposed to come and never did. (it’s unclear here what her job was, something about the bay) She worked there. I had to run the farm.
F: What about Dave? Linda?
P: No. My sister. Nothing. My brother, nothing.
F: Did you tell them she was the girl of your dreams?
P: Well, nuts happens.
F: What did you do when you were there?
P: It was Pontiac Michigan. We’d go here and there. Out. We weren’t into the bar scene.
F: Did you tell your Mom about Connie?
P: Yea, it was all right, it was cool. She was supportive of the relationship.
F: What about your dad?
P: Dad was always on the go, keeping the farm going.
F: What did he think about Connie?
P: Whatever. I never really talked to dad.
F: Do you have a picture of your mom?
P: No, I don’t have any.
F: Do you look like her.
P: Linda looks more like her.
F: Tell me about Linda.
P: Not much to say. She went to a Catholic school and grew up. That’s about it. We were never close. She liked the high life. To go out, go here, go there, she likes school, university, everything. Myself, I have no problem with it - it’s good, but some people didn’t make it through school. Some people can’t.
F: I wish I’d gone onto university. What did she take?
P: Law I think. Lawyer or a realtor.
F: Making tons of money I bet.
P: That’s her own perogative.
F: What did she do on the farm?
P: Nothing
F: She grew up on the farm and never worked on it?
P: Yea, she’s just herself. That’s what she wants so, no big deal. I got no problem with that. My brother, he bought a (inaudible) machine in 1974. EXCERPT: Page 30/31 F: Dave’s a good guy.
P: Yea
F: You say you enjoy his company.
P: Mm-hmmm.
F: Who’s your best friend?
P: Girlfriend? Boyfriend? I have lots of friends.
F: I have 4/5 guys, I consider my good friends. Some I’ve known for a long time, some not so long. If they were in a jam I’d help them out. But who’s your best friend?
P: Everybody. I don’t hold nothing back from nobody. If they’re in a jam I help ‘em out. Anything got stolen, stolen stuff off me, I’d go right back and help em out again. Maybe someday they’ll help me. Even if they gonna steal from me.
F: What goes around comes around.
P: You got it.
F: What qualities do you like in your friends?
P: Honest.
F: What do you like in your friends.
P: It doesn’t matter. It doesn’t matter. I don’t knock anybody down.
F: That’s a good quality to have…
P: Thank you. Because someday you expect the same in return. Even if they steal from you.
F: What don’t you like?
P: People stealing. But the problem is, I overlook it all the time. People I know steal.
F: Um hum.
P: If you haven’t got money out there, if you don’t have money to buy it, you don’t need it.
F: Um hum
P: But otherwise that, like I says, we all wake all up in the morning, go to sleep at night which use, always in the same bed…someday you don’t wake up.
F: Um hum,
P: But the sun still comes up. F: It doesn’t come up on you, that’s the only difference.
P: That’s not, no not necessarily. It still comes up if I’m ten feet under, it’s still gonna come up.
F: That’s true, you’re absolutely right.
P: It’s still gonna come up. My mom’s gonna shine. Page 34:
F: Now you said to me the worst thing that ever happened to you was getting stabbed.
P: Yea, that wasn’t the worse thing.
F: What was the worse ting.
P: Tore apart by two pigs
F: Tell me about that EXCERPT: F: You said the worst thing that ever happened to you was getting stabbed.
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Post by Sher on Feb 4, 2007 3:21:08 GMT -5
P: Wasn’t the worst. The worst was tearing apart my two pigs. It was ’75. I was trying to breed a sow. She was in heat. I got the boar in there to breed it. The boar didn’t want any part of it. I brought another boar in. They started fighting. Just about killed each other. Then they turned on me. Ripped me up. I went down to the hospital. Was in July 75. Went to the hospital. Got to get sewn up. They got me half sewed up and asked me what happened. I said I was mauled by wild boars. They took the stitches apart and said we can’t do anything for you. Said go home, rest. I said I can’t, I got to farm. I had to use my hands to push my knee down to activate the break on the tractor. I had people coming in to look after the animals. I couldn’t get off the tractor - my leg all swolled up. It was so hot. I took my clothes off. Puss was running down my leg. I stayed on the tractor. Got burnt. Heat from the wound. Heat from the tractor. Heat from the sky. It hurt just to cough. Another time, I was 13 years old. Fell out of a tree. It was in the fall - ’78 (that’s wrong if he’s 13). I got mauled by a big Angus bull. Summer 78. That was a scare feeling one time there. See the grass coming off the ground right in front of your feet. But those are the good old days. I got scars. I couldn’t work for 3-4 days that time. I was all black and blue. I got crushed under my truck once. I was working on a hubcap. Thought I had it on safety - guess I didn’t. Come down and crushed my hard hat. I barely got out.
F: Tell me about your horse.
P: That’s my horse. That’s my horse. I bought her …1977. I killed it Dec 21, 1981. First day of winter. Reason? It had hurt itself. Joanne Hut and Tracy. They killed the 2 horses. One half arabian. One purebred Arabian. Reason I had to put it down? Their horses were little mares. Mine was a stallion. 1400 pounds.Their horse kicked mine in the backleg. To fix it 5-thousand dollars. Horse, you can’t baby it - if it twists its leg the wrong way, it’s broken again. (talks more about it) I got the vet to put it down. I couldn’t do it. Dec 21, 1981 5:35 pm. I tried to get another horse - nothing.
F: What was its name?
P: Goldie.
F: 1400 lb stallion. I bet you never dreamt it could get hurt by those little things.
P: 800 lb fillies. But again, it was an accident. The best go first.
F: How did you get into pig farming? Your dad?
P: Yea, many years ago. Many years ago. 1957-58. Opened the first butcher shop. 2426 Pitt River Road. That’s where the house came from. EXCERPT: P:(goes back to the chicken coop story) We had to lift the floorboards to get water and the bucket dropped down. That’s where the water came from. My mother was expecting Dave. I guess I was one and a half when I was there. Linda was three. And then there was Clifford.
F: Who’s Clifford?
P: My dad’s uncle.
F: Were you guys close?
P: Yea. He was hit by a drunk driver. I don’t drink. I got drunk once. I was 24 years old. On my birthday. Maybe 23. I think it was 24. Not sure…maybe 23 or 24. I had 7 screwdrivers. I said I wanted orange juice. I said that’s pretty strong orange juice. I wanted to drive and they said you’ve had 7 drinks. I said orange juice. They said orange juice and vodka. I felt a bit lightheaded. When I was four my mother said do you want to smoke? Be a man. She gave me a cigar. She made me smoke a cigar. That’s the last thing I ever had.
F: Who taught you to butcher pigs?
P: (inaudible)
F: A family friend? How old were you.
P: 13. He’s like, a Krishna. He works at Olympic paint factory. (long long pause) And ah, when I was 13 years old I went to the auction sale, bought the first calf. I was gonna keep this calf for the rest of my life. That was before I got chased by the black bear. . I slept with that calf. I was 12 or 13. (willy yawns) Then I came home from school and the calf was gone. Where’s my calf? Where’s my calf. Dad says maybe it went for a walk around by the barn. No. No way. They kill animals down there. No way. I told him not to go down there. They butcher animals down there. I looked all over, everywhere else. And he said maybe you want to take a walk to the back. I said no on no, it’s not down there. I told him not to go down there. So I says maybe, maybe it did go down there, they said to me. Okay, maybe I’ll go down there. I’ll go around back. I’ll sneak around, to the butchering. Anyway. There’s my calf upside down, cleaned out, butchered it. I couldn’t talk to anybody for about four days.
F: Hum
P: When you’re a scorpion you have a strong sign.
F: Uh hum.
P: Then they sent us for, you got x many dollars for it. You go buy another one. I said no I want that one.
F: Um hum
P: And I finally I realized we’re not here forever. We’re here for the time we’re here for.
P: I got this big scar here (motions to his right eye) couple of years ago, tearing a gas tank open, gas tank exploded, blow side of face off.
F: Um hum
P: But I’m still alive. But that doesn’t make me, make me a mass murderer. But the problem is, that’s life, life goes on. Life goes on. Life goes on. I mean myself, I mean…
F: Everything happens for a reason.
P: Yea, everything happens for a reason.
F: How’d you get into butchering pigs? Are you hungry?
P: Doesn’t matter. Doesn’t matter.
F: What’d you like.
P: I don’t eat anything fancy.
F: I’m allergic to chicken believe it or not. Do you want a sub? I could get us subs?
P: I don’t eat no lettuce, no mayo, no celery, nothing. How’d I get into butchering pigs. Just did. Did 34 head in a day. Dec 23 right through to Dec 24, I think it was in ’77. 34 in a day.
F: 34 in one day - how’d you learn to do that. Somebody must have taught you. Or was that Bob, the Croatian.
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Post by Sher on Feb 4, 2007 3:21:35 GMT -5
P: inaudible
F: What’s the fastest you ever done?
P: Nothing fast about it. The problem is you got to do it. Got to do it right, gotta make it respectable because people are going to eat it. (inaudible) Has to be a clean job because this is for the public.
F: I wasn’t raised on a farm. How do you do it. How do you kill them?
P: You got to make sure the pot has the right temperature water. That’s half the battle. That’s half the battle. If you don’t have the temperature, don’t do anything (yawns). You put the pig in there til the hair comes off, hair loosens up. That’s about it.
F: They still alive when you put them in the water?
P: No, you use a handgun. They’re big boars. 180 lbs.
F: What is it you enjoy about pig farming.
P: Nothing. Make money. I want to get out. Everyone else is "do this one for me" "Do this one for me". It’s all favors.
F: What have you killed - ten thousand? Five thousand?
P: Yea, five-thousand, ten-thousand.
F: More than ten you think?
P: Possible.
F: Who’s the best butcher you’ve ever seen.
P: I don’t know what you’re referring to.
F: (explains this obvious question)
P: Everybody’s got their own special ways of doing things. I don’t know who is better than the next. Lots of people out there doing it.
F: Killing animals. That’s what they’re for, right?
P: Well… I guess so. I guess so.
F: How do you feel about sitting in here talking to me?
P: All right. All right.
F: I don’t have to tell you how big an investigation this is.
P: I don’t know about that.
F: This is a Massive investigation… Huge. In my time with the RCMP I’ve never seen unlimited people and money like this one. After it broke last week some of the best cops in the province were brought in. I don’t know if you know how many people are out there. They’ve brought in forensic experts; forensic anthropologists. They’re going through that site and finding all sorts of bones I guess. They’re able to look at it and say this is from one things, this is from another. They might even have forensic entomologists which a person who studies different types of bugs; they’re brought in experts in blood spatter - people trained by the FBI experts to analyze the blood stains and patterns and how they work, experts in DNA (explains DNA).
(Pickton asks a question about it…inaudible - fordy explains to him)
P: I don’t know about that, I’m just a pig farmer.
F: I’ll help you with questions because I’m here to help you and me understand where you are. (lots more description of the people who are out there) As you know, there are people all over your property, they’ll be there a year.
P: A year!
F: Oh yea… what they gotta do…what they’re going to go through the dirt, go down 25 feet. That’s why it’s going to take so long. (starts talking about Bin Ladin…and ground searching equipment.
P: What are they looking for?
F: They’re looking for evidence.I’ll tell you, some of the people, friends of yours… one of the things police are doing is talking to people who are your associates, talking to them about what’s going on.
P: What is going on.
F: You’re going to be charged and convicted of two murders. The investigation is huge-and is going to identify all the other ones you were involved with. I’m not saying you killed all 50 of those girls. Maybe you killed more, maybe less. You’re the only person who knows. They’re talking to people who were your associates for the past 15 years. You were talking to me about getting stabbed. That’s Wendy, right?
P: That’s one time.
F: (tells similar story about a guy who left his blood and the victims blood behind) So if I said I have your dna on this marker, how would you explain it?
P: I’d have touched it.
F: Yea, what else?
P: I don’t know.
F: Would it have been possible for your DNA to be in this room yesterday?
P: Possible.
F: How?
P: Anything can be set up. Or put in.
F: If you’ve never been in this room your DNA can’t be here. You have to agree.
P: It could have been set up.
F: All right, in the absence of being set up, yes?
P: Yes.
F: There’s more than one side to a story.
P: Yes, there’s always two sides and maybe more.
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Post by Sher on Feb 4, 2007 3:21:56 GMT -5
F: Think back to the incident with the girl that stabbed you. When she went to police there were 2 sides. Your story, and hers. I don’t care what you said to anybody else about the other girls. (Fordy brings in large white board with all the missing women’s pictures on it) [EDITOR'S NOTE: THE FOLLOWING PARTS OF THE INTERVIEW CONTAIN GRAPHIC LANGUAGE AND MAY OFFEND.] I want to walk through them - tell me what girls have ever been to your place. Number: 1 - I don’t know, there’s so many people in and out. 2 - no 3 - no 4 - she has a lazy eye - no 5 (patricia) - shakes his head no 6 - she’s pretty, that’s all I got to say 7 - no 8 - no 9 - no 10 - I don’t know (moves in so he can see better) 11 - no 12 - she’s pretty too 13 - no 14 - I think I seen her around someplace. I thought she was blond. So many people look like her. 15 - not that I know of 16 - no 17 - no 18 - she’s pretty too 19 - no 20 - she’s very pretty. These are from all missing girls huh? 21 - no 22 - no 23 - she’s a dark girl isn’t she? Spanish? (F-I believe her name is Sarah) 24 - no 25 - no 26 - she looks like lynn 27 - no (f: I’ll tell you something, if you were responsible you’d remember) P: who’m I charged with murdering? (F taps board) That one? Who’s she F: We’ll talk about her 28 - no 29 - there were so many people in and out of my place 30 - I don’t know anybody with glasses… no 31 - no. she’s pretty 32 - I don’t think so 33 - no, far as I know, none of them 34 - no 35 - she’s pretty too 36 - no 37 - no 38 - she’s pretty too 39 - she’s nice looking 40 - no 41 - no 42 - no 43 - no 44 - no, none of them 45 - no 46 - no 47 - 47’s pretty cute. No, but she’s pretty 48 - no (yawns) F: Can you give me an explanation why another witness might say they know for sure these women were at your place. P: No way. No Waaaaaay. F: Are you 100 percent on that. P: Yup. F: So you’re telling me none of these women have ever been to your place. Do you want me to leave you alone for a while so you can rack your memory? P: I don’t know them. F: Have you ever had sex with any of these girls? P: Did I? Not that I’m aware of. F: Have they been in along in your car then - that you were alone with them. P: I don’t have a car. F: Your truck then, your vehicle of transportation. P: No. F: 100 percent on that? P: Yup. F: Never been to your house, you’ve never had sex with them. P: No. I had sex with a redhead. She’s not there. I haven’t seen her for a while. What’s her name… Roxanne. F: She’s a prostitute? P: She’s a working girl. F: Is she the only working girl you been with? P: No. I’ve had a couple. Don’t know their names. I had Roxanne at my place. F: When? P. Hmmmmm… a year ago? F: Who introduced you? P: I met her. Nice person. Real nice person. F: What do you mean you had sex with her. P: She was at my place. She went back and forth on the bus. F; What do you call sex? P: She was a nice, nice person. Nice everything. I don’t know where she is now. F: Maybe we got to put her on the poster. Should we? P: She was at my place, I don’t know. F: What do you call your thingy - your thingy? Your thingy? P: I don’t know. F: What did you do… put your thingy in her. P: I don’t know what you’re referring to. F; When you say sex what do you mean. Some people mean the guy on top; some men the girl on top P: She gave me head. F: After she gave you head, what happened. P: Nothing. She was nice. She tried phoning me back 3 months ago. She went to Abbotsford. I heard she moved back to Vancouver.
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Post by Sher on Feb 4, 2007 3:22:20 GMT -5
F: Who’s your girlfriend now?
P: Nancy. We never had sex.
F; Who was the last girl you were with?
P: Roxanne.
F: She gave you head 8 to 10 months ago and you haven’t had sex since?
P: No, she had to go have an operation for a dislocated back. She wanted me to dance. I don’t dance.
F: What’s your favorite way of having sex?
P: It doesn’t matter, I’m not fussy.
F: You haven’t had sex in how long.
P: About a year.
F: Funny, on studies on people who’ve been identified as killing lots of people something happened to them as a child. When you look back… tell me about the first sexual relationship you had with a girl.
P: Not much to say. I wasn’t interested. Can’t remember.
F: The first time with a prostitute - tell me about that?
P: I never had sex with Connie either. She was the first girl I went out with.
F: Who was the first prostitute.
P: I think it was Lynn The one that knifed me. Probably the first time. I just wanted to go home and go to bed but I had 34-hundred dollars on me (stretches and yawns)
F: The first time with a prostitute was Wendy and then Roxanne.
P: Roxanne. She’s a nice person.
F: Do you think she’s dead?
P: I don’t know! I hope not. She’s a nice person. I hope not. She phoned me about three months ago.
F: So you’re telling me none of those girls has been to your place, and you never had sex with them.
P: No, but it doesn’t mean much.
F: It means a lot. We’ve got the best cops here…
(woman walks in with lunch for them both)
REPORTER NOTES ON POLICE INTERVIEW: NOT OFFICIAL TRANSCRIPT Interview done by RCMP Staff Sgt. Bill Fordy at the Surrey detachment offices in February 2002. (Released to Jury on January 24, 2007)
F: I understand your need to lie to me, because you’re scared. In your gut you don’t know what is going to happen. All you know right now is you’re just a big media celebrity. You’re bigger than the Pope – you’re bigger than Princess Diana, than bin laden. You’re on the front page of every paper.
P: The paper, I’m in the paper today?
F: This is it. You are done. There is irrefutable DNA evidence you’re responsible.
P: You mean I’m in the paper today!!
F: There’s a map for each of us, a reason…your father was a hard worker, your mum was a hard worker. Your sister did what she did to you.
P: She didn’t do anything to me. She went to school.
F: We’ll look back and wonder why things happened. Why did my mom die? Why didn’t Connie come up and marry me, when all I wanted was her to be my side.
P: Not necessarily.
F: That’s what you wanted.
P: Not necessarily. I miss her. I miss my mom.
F: If your mum were still alive, you probably wouldn’t be in this chair right now. If you could go back, you’d change things.
P: I wouldn’t change much.
F: That tells me you have a good side. You are who you are.
P: I’m in the paper today?
F: Yes, you are. Do you know why? Because you’re done. It’s done. It’s all over. All the things you need to build a house are in place.
P: I don’t think any of those girls have been to my place.
F: I’d rather you don’t tell me that. No lies. I’d rather you not talk to me. I told you about the blood splatter people. They’ve been at your place. They’re getting evidence from everywhere. They’re spending a million a month digging. This is the biggest crime scene investigation in Canadian history. They’ve done DNA, had people come look at blood spatter. If it was one isolated thing it wouldn’t matter – but this is a freight train and it’s only been going for 2 weeks. The only thing that matters now is what kind of person is Robert Pickton. I think you’re a good person. If you were like Clifford Olson that would be a different matter my friend Let me get some pictures. (pause and gets files) When DNA transfers its from blood, semen, saliva, skin cells. When you and I shake hands your DNA is on my hands, mine is one yours. Jack Nelles – he’s the blood spatter expert – he’s in your motor home. He’s done a forensic examination. (moves over to show Willy photo). What we’ve done is look at the mattress. See anything there?
P: No. Drawings?
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Post by Sher on Feb 4, 2007 3:22:43 GMT -5
F: Looks like a dog. What it is is blood stains. Lots of blood. It’s blood letting. We talked earlier about special lighting. This is the same mattress under a different light. This is Mona Wilson’s blood.
P: What’s that got to do with me? (He leans in.)
F: Her blood is all over your place (flips pictures) Cupboards. This is where she was killed, rendered unconscious. See where it drags along out of the place – same thing there. This is a crime scene’s dream come true. The table, the counter, this is the part I want to show you.
P: That doesn’t mean I did it.
F: I’m going to show you how you’re going to be convicted. It’s normal to hold on to the lie, hoping it’s going to pull you out. It’s not. There’s DNA all over the place – floor, walls…and its analyzed to come back to Mona.
P: I don’t know her.
F: That’s her shoes. She had her shoes on when you killed her. You put her shoes in the closet because they had blood on them.
P: WHAT! No – no.
F: People don’t realize their DNA is left behind when they touch things. My DNA is on your hand. Yours is on mine. Police have your DNA. Her DNA’s there. Now you’re wondering how does her DNA tie to me. She died at my place.
P: Possible, okay.
F: But you’re thinking, Bill, how are you going to prove it to me. Experts say you’re a logical thinker Rob. And they say once I show you, you’re going to accept responsibility. That’s what the experts say.
P: So my picture’s all over the front page! nuts! I never did anything.
F: Stop it. I don’t want to hear lies. If your mother whom you love and respect were here now she’d want you to stand up and be a solid, good person. You’re probably scared inside.
P: But I didn’t do anything!
F: You’re wondering how to get out of this.
P: I didn’t do anything! I don’t know her!
F: It’s okay to be scared. This is a scary scary time. Because there’s some cops who think you’re a crazy, sick, demented wacko. Some cops think these girls are out there selling their bodies, have no self-respect, jamming needles into their arms, heroin, coke, whatever, they’re the master of their own destinies. I’ve been in cases where girls steal from each other, breaking into houses stealing from hard-working people – there are different camps in this building. There are camps that see you as some sick sick demented man – some weirdo. I hope that’s not the case. You’re probably wondering – what are my friends going to think of me, are they still going to be my friends, are they going to abandon me. I’ll go away to jail forever, and be alone. I can’t work anymore. I can’t go back to my farm. Why is this happening to me?
P: Why.
F: Why have I done the things I’ve done.
P: I didn’t!
F: If you aren’t asking why then I am scared for you. Then you are beyond help. You are beyond ever understanding yourself. And you are beyond anyone ever understanding you. You are that weirdo if that’s the case.
P: This is way out of hand.
F: You’re right. It’s way out of hand. The train is picking up speed. You’re going to be convicted and go to jail. The only question is what kind of person are you. Because you’re done on this. Dinah knows it. And you know it. They’re going to keep going through your property and find more. This is over for you. This is over Rob. This isn’t going away. I know you just want balance. You were born into the pig farm, deep down you probably loved it at one time. You know when the cancer was in your mom and it just ate and ate away and she got sicker and sicker and then died. That’s what this lie is, it’s a cancer. And you’re the only one that can take care of that. You’re the surgeon and you’ve got the knife in your hand – you’ve got to cut that cancer out. And you’ll be asking why, why, why.
P: You mean it’s in the paper and everything else? I can’t even go to the courthouse or anything else.
F: It’s going to be hard on you. It’s not going to be easy.
P: I’m not going to get bail or anything else.
F: You’ll be held in custody. You’re in custody.
P: Until I deal with this here.
F: It’s done. It’s the only thing you can do.
P: The one who left the bag there. She’s not here (on the poster). Is she dead?
F: Yea. (Sereena)
P: She’s dead! She’s dead too!She’s dead! No way. No way.
F: You’re telling me you dropped her off at the bus depot.
P: I did. She was supposed to come back that night.
F: When did you drop her off?
P: Nine
F: Where did you sleep?
P: In the trailer.
F: Did you have sex with her?
P: No. I wanted to.
F: What happened.
P: (inaudible)
F: She never left your property.
P: I took her right to the bus depot. I took her to the bus depot. She was supposed to be back. I gave her $100 bill. You mean she came back.
F: I feel sorry for you telling me these lies.
P: I’m not lying. I’m not lying. I think we better call this off.
F: You don’t have to tell me anything. I understand that.
P: You’re telling me she’s dead.
F: She’s dead. And you know what? We haven’t finished talking about the first girl.
P: I didn’t do that. I didn’t. I’ll tell you right now. I didn’t.
F: Who did?
P: I don’t know anything about it. I don’t.
F: I want you to be honest.
P: I am. I am. I am being honest. I didn’t even go in the trailer. Just because it’s on my property doesn’t mean anything. I haven’t been in that motor home for quite a spell. Not for quite a spell. Not for quite a spell. The other girl with the black case. I drove her to the bus depot. 9 a.m. I’m not sure of the date. She’s a French girl. What’s her name? The one with the black bag.
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Post by Sher on Feb 4, 2007 3:23:05 GMT -5
F: Is that the one you never slept with?
P: I slept with her.
F: Have sex with her?
P: No. She’ll tell you the same thing. I dropped her at the bus depot. At Coquitlam station.
F: Where’d you work that day.
P: I don’t remember. (There is a knock on the door – Fordy leaves for a few minutes. Pickton sits by himself saying “I can’t believe this. No way. I can’t believe this,” over and over again)
F: Tim just asked me, he thought maybe I made a mistake. I asked you if you killed Roxanne and you said no. (Willy is reaching for the newspaper that Fordy has brought in) I thought you lied to me about her, so you were lying about Mona and Serena and Patricia. I was wrong, she’s not one we’re looking for. Here’s today’s paper. You can read those.
P: nuts. (Fordy leaves, Pickton reads)
(Fordy comes back in )
F: Believe me now? That you’re done? (flips through photos, hands picture of Mona to Pickton) It’s over. You’re not getting bail. You ’re going to trial, mail, you may die there. She died at your place.
P: I didn’t know her
F: your DNA is with hers. It’s over. You’re done done done done done done like dinner - roast pork. You can cry wolf and people’ll think you’ve done them all. There’s two camps here - one is you buried them whole, the others think you chopped them up, ground them, we’ll find a tooth here, bone here, no matter what way you did it they’ll find it. Experts are going to get evidence.
P: I didn’t do it. I didn’t know her really.
F: You look me in the eye and tell me that and you’re a dirty rotten liar.
P: You can think what you like. I didn’t do it.
F: It’s not somebody else’s DNA. It’s your DNA. One person. Robert William Pickton. So you’re done on this. And you can continue to lie, to hide behind lies, because that’s what people do when they’re scared.
P: Who’s the other one?
F: How about your start here - #1. (walks to and points to the picture on the board)
P: Yea right.
F: Serena Abbotsway. You’re also charged with her murder.
P: No way!
F: They have hardly begun out there.
P: They’re not going to find nothing there.
F: You’re wrong. They’ve linked you with tons of them. And they’re only 2 weeks into this investigation. I can’t imagine how you feel - but you’re done. You need to start looking at yourself. Who am I going to take down with me - am I going to take down Dave?
P: Dave? What’s he got to do with it?
F: As long as you lie, he’s attached to the lie. DJ - it affects him. People who trust you. People who may even love you.
P: I want to go back to my cell.
F: It’s my duty is to talk to you. That’s what I’m going to do. You don’t have to say anything to me. Friends have told us you said a good way to get rid of a girl….
P: Who said that?
F: lots of people are coming forward. The profile is the killer is one who’s known to the girls and has means of getting them to the area and disposing of the bodies. You have all three. I’m going to show you a tape. Just a second. You’re thinking this is not good. People I thought were my friends are talking about me. Your DNA and Mona’s are together. (Puts video tape of Dwayne Chubb in the vcr and plays it)
P: I don’t know him.
F: It’s a tape of Dwayne Chubb.
P: Who’s that?
F: Dwayne.
P: Who’s Dwayne? That’s Scott.
F: We know him as Dwayne. You might call him Scott. (Chubb is hard to hear… says something about if Willy wanted to get rid 0of somebody he’d take a syringe, inject her with windshield fluid, people would think she died of an OD)
P: What! WHAT! Is that Scott?
F: Yea
(video continues - he was complaining he had to give her lots of mony. Cop says ‘try to think back’. Scott: ‘he could rid of her…stick her in the arm…she’d go …(inaudible) tape ends)
P: WHAT? (incredulous)
F: I guess you get the picture. So you can spin the story - nobody’s going to believe you. That’s what’s Going to happen here. (silence from Willy) You and I know they’re going to find thing in the ground. The decision to tell the truth is yours - you’re certainly not getting out of jail. (Pickton picks up Mona’s picture) So you are going to be done and sent away. You took Mona’s life and your DNA is with her DNA. When you say you weren’t with her. That’s a lie. Nobody likes a liar. I hope you’re not involved with anything else because I’d have been wrong. (Pickton says nothing) Do you know the right thing to do? Be strong - for Tammy, DJ and the people you love and the people who came to love you.
P: Scott Chubb.
F: He’s going to give evidence.
P: He’s going to give evidence.
F: Absolutely.
P: After everything I’ve done for him.
F: Yea. This case is getting better and stronger. The foundations of this case are DNA. Other things make it stronger. You’re smart. You’re no dummy. I know you’re not stupid. These girls on the Eastside they had families too - they had mothers once too. People that loved them, coddled them. Deep down inside part of me wonders because you say you like to help people. Maybe you think these girls you helped. These girls aren’t ones you’d want to marry - like Connie. But you took these girls away Rob.
(Pickton talks - inaudible)
F: If you could change things you would, wouldn’t you, you would wouldn’t you, wouldn’t you, wouldn’t you
P: I don’t know…
P: 25 years away?
F: I do know you killed Mona. I want you to tell the truth. I don’t think you killed 50 women.
P: Who’s the other girl?
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Post by Sher on Feb 4, 2007 3:23:33 GMT -5
These are the fourth set of notes from an 11-hour interview conducted by RCMP Staff Sgt. Bill Fordy at the Surrey detachment in February 2002, just after Robert William Pickton was arrested. (Released to Jury on January 24, 2007)
P: I haven't killed anybody really.
F: Have you killed any kids? Tell me you haven't killed any kids.
P: No I haven't. I told you I haven't killed anybody.
F: (goes back to talking about Pickton's mom on her deathbed - Pickton yawns - she's thinking about what she wanted for her little Robert, Fordy says. He pulls his chair alongside Pickton.)
P: I've been charged with two murders right? F: For now. How does that make you feel Robert? How does that make you feel?
P: Makes me feel sick.
F: That feeling's not going to go away. I knew that before you told me. I've talked to lots of killers.
P: I'm not going to get bail or nothing.
F: No you're not. You're absolutely not. If you want to make your mom proud then you need to be responsible. Don't let your mother down.
P: Who's the other one?
F: Serena (points at her picture)
P: Where's her file?
F: Over there. I don't want to go there until you tell me what happened to Mona.
P: I didn't do anything.
F: You killed her. You're hurting Tammy, DJ and Dave - I don't know if you're hurting him or helping him. This whole book is written except for your side of the story. Why you did what you did. You're dying to tell me. I've talked to lots of people. They feel better afterwards.
P: So where do I go from here? I go to court?
F: Go to pre-trial and then you go to court, and to court and court and court and court and court and then jail and you die there. That's another thing, I hope you always wear a condom when you're there because there's STD's. I hope you know this is over. Train is on the tracks, and it gets heavier with each piece of evidence, and it's going to run right over you, Rob. I know you're smart. I know you're not some wacko, some crazy guy. I know that. You have made mistakes. There's evidence all over the place. You can't hide from it. I want you to tell me the truth. I want to understand you.
P: I got to sleep on it for a couple of days.
F: This pain that's inside your stomach is not going to go away. It's going to get worse. Right now you got a disease and it's going to eat you up. It's going to crawl inside you like the cancer that killed your mother. You want to tell me. You want to talk about this. You're wondering yourself. Rob, you can't run from this. You can't hide. This is going to keep going and going. I want to understand you and what happened. I'm not going to judge you and I'm not going to hate you. I'm going to try to understand you. If there was a situation where you wanted to help girls speed up the inevitable, I'll understand.
People aren't going to hate you.
P: Murder? Charged with two? (Another officer comes in and says: "Jim wants to talk to you about some new evidence."
Female officer, Constable Dana Lillies, sits down)
L: It's a lot to digest. Like I was telling you last week, this was going to happen.
P: Did you find the bones I told you about.
L: Yes, your map was perfect.
P: And they were ostrich bones.
L Yes, we knew they would be. Like Bill was telling you, there's more evidence every hour. How are you feeling?
P: I can't feel my toes.
L: You don't feel your toes?
P: (inaudible)
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Post by Sher on Feb 4, 2007 3:24:03 GMT -5
L: It's a lot to be taking in. Could you sleep last night? Have you eaten anything since you've been in custody here? I brought you a sandwich.
P: I don't like it.
L: What would you like to eat Robert?
P: I don't know. At this stage, do I deserve anything to eat?
L: Of course you do. You're a human being who's made mistakes. I'm not going to judge you.
P: I'm dead before I start.
L: You're not dead. You're a human being. You deserve that. We're not here to judge you. I told you that last week. I'm ready to listen to whatever you have to say.
P: I should be on death row.
L: I don't believe that.
P: I'm finished. I'm finished.
L: Well you know, we've come to a point.
P: I'm dead.
L: You know what Robert, you come to a point where you have to deal with what happened. You have to deal with what's happened. The best way to deal with it is openly and honestly. It's not the end of the world.
P: What is?
L: You're going to go on living.
P: For what?
L: You have good qualities. I've been talking to people who know you.
P: I'm over with. I'm finished.
L: You do have good qualities. You do care about people, people have taken advantage of you.
P: I'm finished.
L: You are going to jail, not back to the farm. It's a huge change. It's a lot to take in, but you have to be strong.
P: For what,
L: For you.
P: Dying?
L: People who care about you. Dave is your fiercest protector. He's beside himself right now. I think what's important now, is to give the families some closure. They want answers. You have to give them answers. You can keep your mouth shut. But you could bring an end to this suffering right now. People out there are thinking you're a monster. They don't see the side that I saw, when we sat and visited for a couple of hours there. A human being, with good qualities.
P: I'm dead.
L: But you're not. You're not dead, Robert. But you're at a crossroads.
P: I'm dead.
L: Robert, you're not dead. You're living and breathing and you're going to keep on. You can get the poison out of you or just let it fester. You're shaking your head.
P: I'm dead. I'm a walking corpse.
L: Why do you say that?
P: Well, my name is mud. I'm locked up here forever. You tell me why I don't think that? L: Do you want to tell me what happened and see if it feels better?
P: What's it matter. I'm dead.
L: This was Mona right? I really want to understand what happened with Mona. I do.
P: I didn't do anything really.
L: We all know that's not the case, Robert.
P: That's what they say now, so I mean I'm nailed to the cross anyway.
L: Like Bill was telling you, um, her DNA is all over that trailer.
P: But I always been in there. I've been in there off and on but I don't know anything about this here.
L: I don't think Bill told you where. Your DNA was on the dildo, that was on the gun you have - and her DNA was on the top of that dildo. That's where it was found.
P: That doesn't mean I did it.
L: Yes it does. It does Robert.
P: Just because…
L: You're hurting everybody by denying it.
P: I never did it.
L: You and I both know
P: Look.
L: You know what, Robert?
P: There's a lot of people know I had the gun. L Robert, you and I both know that's not true (Pickton puts his hands over his eyes). One of the things I know, knowing about the kind of sex you had with these women, that doesn't change the way that I see you. I still see the good in you. I see the Robert I sat and chatted with for a couple of hours. I still see Robert who saw his favorite calf was slaughtered as a child. You have real feelings. I know you're going to do the right thing. I believe people become who they are because of what's happened to them. That's what I want to understand. We talked a lot the other day about your history and growing up on a farm. And I think anyone in the same set of circumstances would grow up doing the same things as you. Maybe if you'd been raised in the circumstances I was raised in, it'd be a different situation right now. I'm here to understand you. I'm not here to judge you.
P: I'm. never going to walk again. I've got two charges against me and more pending.
L: You know as I do they're going to find more evidence. Here's your chance to help people, including yourself. I think you have demons you're struggling with - by sitting there silent you're letting them take over. (Talks a lot about more evidence coming up…that there's people coming forward). Are you hearing me? What are you thinking, Robert? What are you thinking?
P: I don't know.
L: What are you feeling?
P: I can't get over Scott Chubb in the machine there.
L: You're surprised he came forward to us? Was that a nod? Yea. What I think really sucks is a lot of people were using you to support their drug habits and they burn you in the end. There's a tip line on the news and people are phoning that. All those things are coming through and being followed up on.
P: I can't get over Scott Chubb.
L: Tell me about Scott. You guys good friends?
P: I can't get over Scott Chubb.
L: Tell me about him, I'm interested.
P: I can't get over him. Who was speaking with him?
L: I'm not sure. Was that someone you worked with?
P: That was Scott Chubb right?
L: I don't know the man.
P: I think that was Scott Chubb.
L: Where do you know him from?
P: Scott Chubb. F***. (Pickton puts his hands over his face) I can't believe it. It's way out now.
L: It hurts doesn't it?
P: Scott Chubb of all guys. Of all guys - him! What is he trying to do?
L: I can't answer that, but we're getting lots and lots of phone calls from people like Scott Chubb.
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Post by Sher on Feb 4, 2007 3:25:20 GMT -5
REPORTER NOTES ON POLICE INTERVIEW WITH ROBERT WILLIAM PICKTON ON FEB. 23, 2003: NOT OFFICIAL TRANSCRIPT PAGE 1 Released to jury January 25, 2007 Police present are RCMP Staff Sgt. Bill Fordy and RCMP Insp. Don Adam Excerpt
Adam: Hi Bill. I’m just wondering if I should spend, come in and spend just a couple of seconds with Willy, I don’t think he’s quite got the whole picture of what is going on here.
Fordy: Absolutely, do you want me to leave you with him?
A: No, no I’m just only ah, just want to lay this out for him because ah, you guys ah, hi Bob, or Robert which do you prefer to be called?
Pickton: Doesn’t matter.
A: My name is Don Adam by the way. (shakes hands) Have a seat. I’ll call you, well, I don’t know, I have heard some people say you prefer to be called Robert. I knew you as Willie.
I used to be stationed in Coquitlam back in the early 80’s with John Pearson and then all those guys back in the days when ah, you guys were burying equipment and doing that kind of stuff.
Bob, I’m in charge of this investigation all right, I’m a S/Sgt. And ah, Bill’s gone over some of this stuff, but I think that maybe you need to hear sort of the overall picture and I’m not going to spend a lot of time with you, but I want to just set things out, sort of crystal clear as to how this comes together.
OK, the first thing you need to know is this, OK Robert. Right now we can associate you to 12 of these women. All right, and that’s two weeks into the investigation. OK, 12 of them. Next you need to know is that relative to Sereena Abotsway and, and ah,
I’m not a front line investigator right, I direct the guys, relative to her we have Linda thingy, who will state last summer that she met you and Serenna together and Sereena introduced you all right as Robert and that Sereena said you were going out to your farm.
(Pickton shakes head “no”)
No, no, no, just wait and listen. Never saw her again, that will be evidence. The next evidence is that I have got my people tracking every movement of Sereena Abotsway.
Sereena Abotsway was no good with money Robert. What happened is that every three days she would have to go to welfare to get money. They would give her I think $35. I could stand to be corrected on that, but she was no good with it.
She was always in getting her asthma medicine all right. Now Bill’s talked to you about that, but here’s your problem all right. The media released about that ah, inhaler all right.
We have statements from people including your brother where you say, yes, it was a shiny case, I brought it into the house. Willy that’s gonna be the evidence, all right. A shiny case I brought into the house. You discuss it with a whole bunch of people and we have that.
You can’t move away that’s your position. Willy, you need to understand something, that inhaler was notfound by itself in your house, it was found in a tote bag belonging to Sereena Abotsway. Inside that tote bag are her shoes, her clothes, a needle and on that needle is her DNA and your DNA together OK.
Additionally, when we went out into the garbage, we found layers of garbage, we found her second inhaler that she got in the ah, 19th, in your garbage. No, no, no this is a fact, in your garbage, under layers of garbage we found two more of her inhalers.
Yeah, we got four of them. All right Willy, you need to understand, you told a lie to try and justify how that inhaler got into your house.
(Shakes head “no”)
Oh yeah Willy. There’s no point shaking your head, just listen to me, so you know what the evidence is, case you need to know where you are because only by knowing where you are Willy, by knowing exactly how locked-in you are, how the lies are dragging you down like a stone.
If you pick up a great big boulder Willy and step into a deep lake, what happens to you? (Pickton wipes eyes) You go to the bottom don’t you? And the lies that you’ve told, the little cover-ups you’ve tried to create, are stones that are going to carry you to the bottom Willy.
All right, so you need to listen to me cause I am not here to lie, and Bill got a bit of the evidence confused all right and it’s not his intention to lie and I’m gonna straighten up that confusion out right here and now.
Cause we are not here to lie to you about the evidence, and we’re not here to exaggerate the evidence Willy. We don’t have to. Do you understand? So where, where Bill has made mistakes or got confused I’m going to straighten you out on that.
Sereena Abotsway, you will be convicted of that, all right. On the tote bag Willy is her blood. All right. And Willy you are locked into all of your stories about finding that one inhaler, Willy one inhaler. Not a tote bag with blood. Not extra inhalers in your garbage, not any of that stuff Willy. You are completely finished on that case.
Mona Wilson, that is a murder site inside that motor home. We have got tons of witnesses talking about you in that motor home. There are tons of them.
I’ve got 45 guys out taking statements and have been working day and night. All right. I’ve got a room full of statements, videos, Dictaphone taped statements, everybody talking about you. It is an army of investigators and they are the best in the province and we’re not making mistakes Willy,
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Post by Sher on Feb 4, 2007 3:25:54 GMT -5
it is coming down on you like an avalanche, OK, and you’ve helped bring it down, by your little stories all right, and we have that from the people.
They’re afraid of you all right, and they tell you oh, well this, but in truth they’re giving us stuff.
Mona Wilson, that’s a murder scene, all right no doubt about it. There’s drag marks, where you dragged her out of there all right. There’s the fact that you’ve got the dildo with the gun and your mixed DNA with hers on that dildo. How do you think a jury is going to loOK at a dildo on the end of a gun Willy, that’s got DNA of you and her connected with a murder scene.
What are they going to think all right. Probably what happened Willy, I don’t know. It doesn’t end there. We’ve got the ID of Heather Bottomley all right, another girl there. We got the statements all right. Your friend he likes you, he talks about liking you. But he is not willing to sit by, Willy, when you murder somebody. People aren’t willing to stand by you when you, when they know you’re a killer.And you know he talks about the needle with the windshield washer fluid.
P: I don’t know nothing about that.
A: You don’t know anything about that, absolutely not. (Shaking head) Well, Willy, I got bad news for you because inside your ah, entertainment unit or whatever it is, a chest of drawers inside your trailer.
P: Um-hum.
A: Guess what’s there? A needle with windshield washer fluid. Yes, Willy, absolutely.
P: I know nothing about that.
A: Willy, tell me your story.
P: I’m honest with you.
A: Well you want to know something. I haven’t even started, but you want to know how bad it is, that your brother Dave all right, he is talking to a Mark and Bruce, those two policemen he’s been dealing with.
He told them today 'I know it’s over for Willy, I know there’s bodies,' He’s saying Dinah Taylor killed some of those women. Some of the women, it wasn’t Willy that did it, he just got rid of the bodies and he’s going to come forward with that evidence. But, Willy, that may be true, but your brother’s saying that all right.
Now, I don’t know if your brother knows where the bodies are but he’s already given that up on them and he’s just gotta work the final arrangements to give that up.
Willy, maybe you didn’t kill every single one of those, maybe Dinah Taylor is involved in some of it, maybe you were getting blackmailed. We know that Lynn Ellingsen was blackmailing you all right. We know that. Do you understand?
If you’ve been used, Willy, if you’ve been drawn into this by people, maybe pressured, you need to explain that. You need to explain it, Willy. OK, but it’s coming down, Dinah Taylor all right, after she told what, she, she toOK off out here, and went back to the reserve in Ontario.
We flew some policemen out there and they went to her house with her mom and dad and her mom and dad and them talked her into cooperating; and she said that she had phoned you and tried to coOK up a story with you about some sort of a duffle bag, that it came from the, some hotel ah, the Cobalt. She gave that up.
P: That’s true.
A: Yeah, well she did phone you, because she told us that.
P: That’s true, it came from the Cobalt.
A: No, no, no. She told our people that was a story you guys agreed to tell.
P: No.
A: Well, I’m telling you that’s what, that’s where we are now Willy. You need to understand this, Lynn Ellingsen, all right who was blackmailing you, is now negotiating with her lawyer to give you up right now, so she doesn’t go down for whatever her involvement was.
Right now, her lawyers have called us and are negotiating. Willy, do you know who Paul Bernardo is? Paul Bernardo killed two young girls back in Ontario, OK, and he, he killed them with his wife, her name is Karla Homolka. All right and they’re, they’re famous here in Canada because it is sort of the first man/woman team that we’re aware of where they were involved in serial killings.
Now running this file Willy, I can tell you that I am sitting here going I don’t know how involved, or uninvolved Taylor and Ellingsen were with you, I know they were bringing girls out to you. I’ve got tons of evidence of that, I know that Elllingsen has talked about blackmailing you all right. She talks about coming in when you were skinning a girl, hanging on a hoOK.
P: That’s not true
A: Well Willy you know how bad it is.
P: That’s here nor there.
A: Listen to me for a second, you know how bad it is. I know that you were angry against the girls, I know that you blame one of these girls for giving you HEP C, that’s true isn’t it?
(Pickton shake head no)
I got people lined up to tell me that you said that, Willy. If it’s a situation where you weren’t thinking straight, that your anger at being stabbed, that you’re upset over being sick because of that, caused you to make these mistakes, give people a chance to understand. Because you know what, you do not want to be hated, and despised for the rest of your life.
OK, so you gotta start thinking longer term you know. We’re not offering you any deals, Willy, because we don’t have to. Do you understand?
Like we don’t have to, do you know what’s in this for us, why we care? Two reasons, Willy. Number one is that I know these families. I met them, I know them and I know that these ladies you know, their lives went, went wrong.
OK, and I know that you have nothing but contempt for them, and I know that in my life, before I got involved in this file, they’re not the kind of, I would just ignore them. I wouldn’t think about it.
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